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 Post subject: "USB and SATA Device Manager has stopped working"
PostPosted: Mon Jan 24, 2011 12:21 pm 
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Joined: Mon Jan 24, 2011 11:56 am
Posts: 7
Just after starting the program the following message appears "USB and SATA Device Manager has stopped working ... -> Close the program".
Windows Server 2008 R2, USB Safely Remove version 4.4.2

Any idea what is going wrong ?

witrak()

PS. I have tried to search the forum for whole error message ("USB and SATA Device Manager has stopped working") and the result is:

"The following words in your search query were ignored because they are too common words: manager stopped working sata has device usb and.
You must specify at least one word to search for. Each word must consist of at least 3 characters and must not contain more than 14 characters excluding wildcards."

Isn't it a little bit to restrictive ? ;-)


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 Post subject: Re: "USB and SATA Device Manager has stopped working"
PostPosted: Wed Jan 26, 2011 10:45 pm 
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Joined: Mon Jan 24, 2011 11:56 am
Posts: 7
Quote:
Just after starting the program the following message appears "USB and SATA Device Manager has stopped working ... -> Close the program".
Windows Server 2008 R2, USB Safely Remove version 4.4.2

Any idea what is going wrong ?

One of reasons is improper user account type used to start the program.
SafelyRemove started from administrator's account works just fine.

witrak()


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 Post subject: Re: "USB and SATA Device Manager has stopped working"
PostPosted: Tue Feb 01, 2011 9:14 pm 
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Joined: Thu Nov 01, 2007 12:44 pm
Posts: 554
Location: Saint Petersburg
Hi Witrak(),
Actually the program was designed to run under non-administrative account. Can you try to run the latest version (4.5.2, http://safelyremove.com/usbsafelyremovesetup.exe) from non-admin account and see if it is working properly or not. If it's still not working please describe can you even run the program under non-admin account (and it fails sometime ago) or it fails before the start?

Quote:
Isn't it a little bit to restrictive ? ;-)

You are right, it's too restrictive. I've just made less restrictive conditions for search in the forum


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 Post subject: Re: "USB and SATA Device Manager has stopped working"
PostPosted: Thu Feb 03, 2011 9:01 pm 
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Joined: Mon Jan 24, 2011 11:56 am
Posts: 7
Igor wrote:
Hi Witrak(),
Actually the program was designed to run under non-administrative account. Can you try to run the latest version (4.5.2, http://safelyremove.com/usbsafelyremovesetup.exe) from non-admin account and see if it is working properly or not. If it's still not working please describe can you even run the program under non-admin account (and it fails sometime ago) or it fails before the start?


First I have tried previous version. Then 4.5.2.1111. The same behavior.
The difference is in inconsistent reaction of older version to language selection: older version presented mix of selected language and language taken from locale. New is better in that it honors option settings.

Unfortunately any of them doesn't work if is started from normal (unprivileged) account. In fact it seems the program cannot even finish start sequence - the message window contains only text as in the Subject.

Additional symptom is that program cannot find log file directory (Help|About|Open the Log file directory): it try to find it in current user directory, while it is in admin directory. Anyway the log file is being created, so there is difference in method used to set path during creation and access.

I suspect the problem may have something to do with unusual configuration of my directory tree: except
AppData all my /Users/<username>/ subdirectories are located on the secondary disk. But diagnostic info is a little bit cryptic, anyway :-)

witrak()


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 Post subject: Re: "USB and SATA Device Manager has stopped working"
PostPosted: Sun Jul 31, 2011 8:57 pm 
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Joined: Mon Jan 24, 2011 11:56 am
Posts: 7
Igor wrote:
Hi Witrak(),
Actually the program was designed to run under non-administrative account. Can you try to run the latest version (4.5.2, http://safelyremove.com/usbsafelyremovesetup.exe) from non-admin account and see if it is working properly or not. If it's still not working please describe can you even run the program under non-admin account (and it fails sometime ago) or it fails before the start?


I come back to the problem. As you wrote some months' ago in reply to neo314 post, the reason for the error is DEP. I have had DEP set on for all programs. Now I have changed DEP setting for USBSafelyRemove and it starts from unprivileged account too.

However I'm afraid it isn't good solution:

1) If it from the beginning have worked from admin account and DEP=on wasn't any problem, why for unprivileged account it is a problem?

2) If you knew about the problem, why you did not explain it in the installation docs?

3) IF there IS a difference in mode of operation related to privilege level of an account, WHAT your program REALLY does?

4) Assuming the situation is only some effect of programming style :-) and USBSafelyRemove really does only what it should do, what about other potential problems you do not mention in documentation?
For example, what about potential conflict between two (or more) instances, started from different accounts (eg. normal and elevated privileges account)?

5) Taking into account everything, don't you think your price list is rather appropriate for more mature product? ;-)

Regards,

witrak()


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 Post subject: Re: "USB and SATA Device Manager has stopped working"
PostPosted: Tue Aug 02, 2011 7:20 am 
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Joined: Thu Nov 01, 2007 12:44 pm
Posts: 554
Location: Saint Petersburg
Hi Witrak(),
Thanks for the feedback and find my replies below.

witrak() wrote:
I come back to the problem. As you wrote some months' ago in reply to neo314 post, the reason for the error is DEP. I have had DEP set on for all programs. Now I have changed DEP setting for USBSafelyRemove and it starts from unprivileged account too.
However I'm afraid it isn't good solution:
1) If it from the beginning have worked from admin account and DEP=on wasn't any problem, why for unprivileged account it is a problem?


I actually does not understand fully your current conditions (and the problem as well). What settings for what accounts do you have? Do you run the program from non-administrative account and it crashes, while it works flawlessly under an administrative account?

Quote:
2) If you knew about the problem, why you did not explain it in the installation docs?

I believe 99.9% of users do not know what's DEP. Also the problem might happen if DEP is enabled but non always, I'd say very rare. This problem is more about incompatibility of the program with the specified hardware. E.g. on my own computers I have DEP enabled and the program works flawlessly for administrative and restricted accounts.

Quote:
3) IF there IS a difference in mode of operation related to privilege level of an account, WHAT your program REALLY does?

It does what's described here and nothing more.

Quote:
4) Assuming the situation is only some effect of programming style :-) and USBSafelyRemove really does only what it should do, what about other potential problems you do not mention in documentation?

Actually the program in this case just doesn't work on a specified configuration. It doesn't cause problems isn't it? In this case we can only mention that "on some rare configurations with DEP enabled the program might not work". But I'm not sure that this information helps.

Quote:
For example, what about potential conflict between two (or more) instances, started from different accounts (eg. normal and elevated privileges account)?

We are trying to spend our time on fixing the problems as soon as users encounter them and report us rather than on writing this problems to documentation. I think it's better for product.

Quote:
5) Taking into account everything, don't you think your price list is rather appropriate for more mature product? ;-)

I believe our product is enough mature comparing to other products, since there are no programs on the Earth that works on absolutely all hardware configurations and doesn't have bugs at all. Anyway I'd be happy if you share here your thoughts about how much the program should cost.


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 Post subject: Re: "USB and SATA Device Manager has stopped working"
PostPosted: Wed Aug 03, 2011 6:00 pm 
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Joined: Mon Jan 24, 2011 11:56 am
Posts: 7
Hi, Igor :-)
Thanks for your reply. My post is delayed, sorry, but I write this reply second time - first has been eaten by my browser and your server :-)))
Igor wrote:
Hi Witrak(),
Thanks for the feedback and find my replies below.
witrak() wrote:
I come back to the problem. As you wrote some months' ago in reply to neo314 post, the reason for the error is DEP. I have had DEP set on for all programs. Now I have changed DEP setting for USBSafelyRemove and it starts from unprivileged account too.
However I'm afraid it isn't good solution:
1) If it from the beginning have worked from admin account and DEP=on wasn't any problem, why for unprivileged account it is a problem?
I actually does not understand fully your current conditions (and the problem as well). What settings for what accounts do you have? Do you run the program from non-administrative account and it crashes, while it works flawlessly under an administrative account?
Now everything is OK: I have changed DEP to off (selectively, only for USBSR) and program starts as it should (during Windows boot) and works according to the description: is available from all accounts, privileged and unprivileged.
Igor wrote:
Quote:
2) If you knew about the problem, why you did not explain it in the installation docs?
I believe 99.9% of users do not know what's DEP. Also the problem might happen if DEP is enabled but non always, I'd say very rare. This problem is more about incompatibility of the program with the specified hardware. E.g. on my own computers I have DEP enabled and the program works flawlessly for administrative and restricted accounts.
...
Igor wrote:
Quote:
4) Assuming the situation is only some effect of programming style :-) and USBSafelyRemove really does only what it should do, what about other potential problems you do not mention in documentation?
Actually the program in this case just doesn't work on a specified configuration. It doesn't cause problems isn't it? In this case we can only mention that "on some rare configurations with DEP enabled the program might not work". But I'm not sure that this information helps.
Quote:
For example, what about potential conflict between two (or more) instances, started from different accounts (eg. normal and elevated privileges account)?
We are trying to spend our time on fixing the problems as soon as users encounter them and report us rather than on writing this problems to documentation. I think it's better for product.

Well, typical programs work correctly always or never. Thus it is unreasonable to put effort into creating description of their anomalous behavior, because if such program doesn't work for a user because of some rare incompatibility then there is high probability it will never work for the user (and if this user have paid for it then s/he will contact support).

Obviously USBSR is NOT typical program. It has to be complicated, as it must cope with different hardware, unspecified interface [Windows :-( ] etc. Thus it is a chance that it may not work properly in much higher number of cases. Some of them are unavoidable (incompatibility cases...) but some have to be related to programers' work - not even errors, but results of long evolution of program code during development of the product.
For sure a *clean* program written *from the beginning with limitations of DEP in mind* will work with DEP set to ON disregarding any other (technical) code dependencies.

I expect the producer (you...) should do *anything* to make my (the potential buyer's...) problems as rare as possible.
It means: if there is possible that explanation of rare case when program may not work may help the user to overcome problem or at least to improve situation, the explanation should be prepared and put in some easy to find place.

If you don't care because such situation concerns a small percentage of people supporting your business then you *send clear signal* to these people: "I don't care" :(

So I don't agree with you in all points above.

Igor wrote:
Quote:
5) Taking into account everything, don't you think your price list is rather appropriate for more mature product? ;-)
I believe our product is enough mature comparing to other products, since there are no programs on the Earth that works on absolutely all hardware configurations and doesn't have bugs at all. Anyway I'd be happy if you share here your thoughts about how much the program should cost.
That's your opinion (about programs) and probably also opinion of part of users. However I would argue... ;-)

As for prices there is my opinion (I only think about prices for regular users, not business users.)
1) The basic price ($20) is acceptable, but as for a utility program it is high even if it covers 1 yr upgrade subscription, because final release still has important faults.
2) Upgrade subscription price ($10/yr) is too high: taking into account USBSR reached its final form and future upgrades will only repair errors and expand compatibility to new devices "upgrade" means really "support". And 50% of license price is too much. I would propose change of upgrade subscription period to 2 years and price of it to $14 - $15. You cash in advance what means your real gain is even higher.
3) Unlimited upgrade subscription price is absolutely too high. "Unlimited" means in reality "until producer cease to exist or program is discontinued, whatever happens first". In practice utility programs life time is comparable to OS version life time. After that a new version of utility is released (with new price tag of course :-) ) or totally new product is entered into market (what in fact have taken place ;-) ).
Thus you should calculate program with unlimited upgrade subscription price as:
license price ($20) + 2*[2yr upgrade subscription price (2*$14) - discount] = $20 + ($28 - discount),
and for 4yrs period discount should be about 50%, what means roughly $35 in total.

Another thing is your taxing schema. I don't understand why you present prices without *any mention* it doesn't include VAT ? This is against common practices and a little (?) unfair.
Second, why your business partner - who you declare do for you only payment technical operations - adds VAT according to EC regulations ? Your firm is not registered in EC so you should sell at prices including Russia VAT, shouldn't you ?

Regards,

witrak()
PS. My nick is witrak() - with parentheses but without capitalizing "w" ;-)


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 Post subject: Re: "USB and SATA Device Manager has stopped working"
PostPosted: Wed Aug 17, 2011 11:09 am 
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Joined: Thu Nov 01, 2007 12:44 pm
Posts: 554
Location: Saint Petersburg
Hi witrak(),
I apologize for so long response.

witrak() wrote:
It means: if there is possible that explanation of rare case when program may not work may help the user to overcome problem or at least to improve situation, the explanation should be prepared and put in some easy to find place.

As I already told we try to spend our time fixing the problem rather than making docs. 99,9% of users never read them, they either uninstall or send us a support question. Actually the program installer adds a DEP exception so that USB Safely Remove will not run under DEP and the problem will be resolved. But after your request I found that the installer incorrectly added DEP exception on Windows 7. Now we fixed this and the latest version 4.7 will avaoid even this rare problem.

Quote:
but as for a utility program it is high
Upgrade subscription price ($10/yr) is too high:
Unlimited upgrade subscription price is absolutely too high.

witrack(), thanks for your recommendations! We will consider them.


Quote:
Second, why your business partner - who you declare do for you only payment technical operations - adds VAT according to EC regulations ? Your firm is not registered in EC so you should sell at prices including Russia VAT, shouldn't you ?

Actually it doesn't matter where the company is from. If it sells on the territory of EU it should take VAT (I actually do not know what they do with this VAT, perhaps they pay it back to EU). And this is not feature of only our payment partner - all other payment registrars (ShareIt, Avangate, FastSpring and etc) have the same conditions.


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 Post subject: Re: "USB and SATA Device Manager has stopped working"
PostPosted: Thu Aug 18, 2011 10:01 pm 
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Joined: Mon Jan 24, 2011 11:56 am
Posts: 7
Hi, Igor, nice to see your answer :-)
Igor wrote:
witrak() wrote:
It means: if there is possible that explanation of rare case when program may not work may help the user to overcome problem or at least to improve situation, the explanation should be prepared and put in some easy to find place.

As I already told we try to spend our time fixing the problem rather than making docs. 99,9% of users never read them, they either uninstall or send us a support question.

I didn't think about docs. Entry in F.A.Q. may need 5 lines and 5 minutes, not more... It is easier to redirect user to such entry than to write individual explanation every time.
Igor wrote:
Actually the program installer adds a DEP exception so that USB Safely Remove will not run under DEP and the problem will be resolved. But after your request I found that the installer incorrectly added DEP exception on Windows 7. Now we fixed this and the latest version 4.7 will avaoid even this rare problem.

That's fine ! Now I may consider buying USBSR :-)
Igor wrote:
Quote:
Second, why your business partner - who you declare do for you only payment technical operations - adds VAT according to EC regulations ? Your firm is not registered in EC so you should sell at prices including Russia VAT, shouldn't you ?

Actually it doesn't matter where the company is from. If it sells on the territory of EU it should take VAT (I actually do not know what they do with this VAT, perhaps they pay it back to EU). And this is not feature of only our payment partner - all other payment registrars (ShareIt, Avangate, FastSpring and etc) have the same conditions.

Don't you have similar partner in Russia ? Operating from Russia you sell your products at prices including your local VAT. Russia's VAT rate is lower than rate in almost all EU countries (http://ec.europa.eu/taxation_customs/resources/documents/taxation/vat/how_vat_works/rates/vat_rates_en.pdf), what makes difference from 2% to 7% (except 3 or 4 countries, where difference is lower). And this isn't negligible for non-business buyers...

Another question is lack of information that your prices do not include VAT. This shouldn't take place, as it is really confusing.
(By the way, you should force your partner to correct fault in the transaction page code making invisible this part of page where the final amounts are presented, at least for some languages...)

Regards,

witrak()


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 Post subject: Re: "USB and SATA Device Manager has stopped working"
PostPosted: Fri Aug 19, 2011 9:16 am 
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Joined: Thu Nov 01, 2007 12:44 pm
Posts: 554
Location: Saint Petersburg
witrak() wrote:
Don't you have similar partner in Russia ? Operating from Russia you sell your products at prices including your local VAT. Russia's VAT rate is lower than rate in almost all EU countries (http://ec.europa.eu/taxation_customs/resources/documents/taxation/vat/how_vat_works/rates/vat_rates_en.pdf), what makes difference from 2% to 7% (except 3 or 4 countries, where difference is lower). And this isn't negligible for non-business buyers...

It's strange but we actually do not have here a payment processor with at least 50% of required features as Plimus or other US payment operators. Also they have a cumbersome user interface which might push away customers (checkout for example the only Russian operator I know sells outside Russia: http://softkey.net). So using our local operators is not a case. But anyway thanks for raising this question we will see what we can do to avoid\decrease VAT (legally of course :)).

Quote:
Another question is lack of information that your prices do not include VAT. This shouldn't take place, as it is really confusing.

You are right, we will mention it.

Quote:
(By the way, you should force your partner to correct fault in the transaction page code making invisible this part of page where the final amounts are presented, at least for some languages...)

Can you send me the screenshot of what you see, please? Also tell me what browser do you use?


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 Post subject: Re: "USB and SATA Device Manager has stopped working"
PostPosted: Sun Aug 21, 2011 7:27 am 
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Joined: Mon Jan 24, 2011 11:56 am
Posts: 7
Hi, Igor,
Igor wrote:
It's strange but we actually do not have here a payment processor with at least 50% of required features as Plimus or other US payment operators. Also they have a cumbersome user interface which might push away customers (checkout for example the only Russian operator I know sells outside Russia: http://softkey.net). So using our local operators is not a case.

softkey.net seems to be normal software shop, not a payment operator. In comparison to what you have at plimus Softkey have not what you need, I agree. I think there are operators similar to Plimus. [NB. Did you have problems with Plimus ever ? Like described here http://bit.ly/lv2sRZ+, especially on second page.]
Also, there is always another way: to build simple e-shop by yourself and use external service to make final payment (credit card charging or so). I think it is a bit too far from your area of interest, however ;-)
Igor wrote:
But anyway thanks for raising this question we will see what we can do to avoid\decrease VAT (legally of course :)).
Of course :-)
Igor wrote:
Quote:
(By the way, you should force your partner to correct fault in the transaction page code making invisible this part of page where the final amounts are presented, at least for some languages...)
Can you send me the screenshot of what you see, please? Also tell me what browser do you use?
I've checked the problem again and it depends on combination of currency and language - for € everything is always OK, while for other currencies not so. I post an example of the worst situation.

Regards,
witrak()


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